This reminds me of what is said about that method Foshee was saying that artists like Da Vinci used to project images onto canvases for reference, that it’s “cheating”. Even if they DID use this method, that doesn’t mean making the painting wasn’t very very hard and laborious and that they aren’t masterpieces…Even if she did do this (I don’t think she did) that does not discredit the series as beautiful and amazing, she just had some kind of influence, or help!
There’s so many things out there, I’m sure it is going to be similar to something else. Especially since most follow the same archetypes and have the same plot structure. It’s kind of ridiculous.
And if she really did plagarize, I feel bad for the author of “The Adventures of Willy the Wizard” cause jk did it so much better.
I think I agree. I know it would be ridiculous to assume that authors or artists could create a work of art from nothing–they have to start somewhere–even the surrealists claim to have pulled their inspiration from dreams, which are just skewed (or “real” depending on who you’re talking to) perceptions of waking life.
I heard about this a few months ago, and was strangely disheartened. I don’t particularly care for Rockwell’s paintings, but it did strike me as false. It isn’t that authors shouldn’t pull inspiration from other works (I don’t think they could avoid it), it just seems disingenuous to not give credit where it’s due, if possible.
Oh, and I just tracked down Jonathan Lethem’s article on plagiarism. He’s one of the best contemporary authors out there, and gives a really thoughtful analysis of the situation: Harper’s.
Your point about Rowling doing it better is interesting. I guess, though, it comes down to the point of art, which is beyond me. On the one hand, people should receive compensation for their ideas, but on the other, society shouldn’t be deprived of a new perspective on something (even if it’s fictional) because someone’s “said it first.” Is that too simplistic?
I feel like it might be more acceptable, like not as big of a deal, for the surrealists to admit they get thier inspiration from dreams. I think most people would be okay with that being a legit source of inspiration.
That is wierd about the Rockwell paintings- well in this case I would have expected him to credit them or admit his method, and that makes me think the artists Foshee was talking about should have also admitted thiers. Although I wouldn’t know for sure if it was well known what they had done, projecting images, at the time.
Regardless of where the artists find thier inspiration or what methods they use, I would still really respect them for what came out of it, if it’s good.
Ohh and yeah a new perspective on something already there! That makes sense. If it’s different enough from the source…otherwise fanfiction might seep out the teabag and into the mug that is actual literature.
I’m with you. It seems to come down to two different issues: giving credit and finding inspiration. The line between theft (which implies that the original author “owned” the ideas in the first place) and appropriation is really slim. I’m reading back over Lethem’s article now, and realizing that I pulled the surrealist example from him…
Definitely read over it when you have the time; the writing truly is brilliant, and he drives the message home at the end with his own bibliography. Here are his last lines:
“Don’t pirate my editions; do plunder my visions. The name of the game is Give All. You, reader, are welcome to my stories. They were never mine in the first place, but I gave them to you. If you have the inclination to pick them up, take them with my blessing.”
Haha I agree about the fanfic, but I have a copy of Rowling’s last book (probably) not written by her (unless it is a really early draft) that is much, much better than the one that was published.
IMHO: Should a person intentionally steal another’s ideas without credit simply for personal gain? Never. (Campbell’s taught us that we vilify the person who uses knowledge for solely personal gain…)
Should a person find inspiration in the works of others? Sure; it’s unavoidable.
I think the problem arises when money (and copyrights) come into play. I would never say “All art should be free and owned by all,” but the problem has nothing to do with adapting or adopting another’s idea; it has everything to do with making money and “deserving credit.”
I was not at all disappointed to see those photos for Rockwell. It actually made me happy, I use source photos all the time. I cannot draw proportionate people without reference. I rob reality or I rob art, mostly both.
Also isn’t developing a photo like using a projector to paint, except without the long process of applying paint?
February 18, 2010 at 8:05 pm
This reminds me of what is said about that method Foshee was saying that artists like Da Vinci used to project images onto canvases for reference, that it’s “cheating”. Even if they DID use this method, that doesn’t mean making the painting wasn’t very very hard and laborious and that they aren’t masterpieces…Even if she did do this (I don’t think she did) that does not discredit the series as beautiful and amazing, she just had some kind of influence, or help!
There’s so many things out there, I’m sure it is going to be similar to something else. Especially since most follow the same archetypes and have the same plot structure. It’s kind of ridiculous.
And if she really did plagarize, I feel bad for the author of “The Adventures of Willy the Wizard” cause jk did it so much better.
February 18, 2010 at 8:05 pm
falacy!
February 18, 2010 at 8:14 pm
I think I agree. I know it would be ridiculous to assume that authors or artists could create a work of art from nothing–they have to start somewhere–even the surrealists claim to have pulled their inspiration from dreams, which are just skewed (or “real” depending on who you’re talking to) perceptions of waking life.
I heard about this a few months ago, and was strangely disheartened. I don’t particularly care for Rockwell’s paintings, but it did strike me as false. It isn’t that authors shouldn’t pull inspiration from other works (I don’t think they could avoid it), it just seems disingenuous to not give credit where it’s due, if possible.
February 18, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Oh, and I just tracked down Jonathan Lethem’s article on plagiarism. He’s one of the best contemporary authors out there, and gives a really thoughtful analysis of the situation: Harper’s.
Your point about Rowling doing it better is interesting. I guess, though, it comes down to the point of art, which is beyond me. On the one hand, people should receive compensation for their ideas, but on the other, society shouldn’t be deprived of a new perspective on something (even if it’s fictional) because someone’s “said it first.” Is that too simplistic?
February 18, 2010 at 8:31 pm
I feel like it might be more acceptable, like not as big of a deal, for the surrealists to admit they get thier inspiration from dreams. I think most people would be okay with that being a legit source of inspiration.
That is wierd about the Rockwell paintings- well in this case I would have expected him to credit them or admit his method, and that makes me think the artists Foshee was talking about should have also admitted thiers. Although I wouldn’t know for sure if it was well known what they had done, projecting images, at the time.
Regardless of where the artists find thier inspiration or what methods they use, I would still really respect them for what came out of it, if it’s good.
February 18, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Ohh and yeah a new perspective on something already there! That makes sense. If it’s different enough from the source…otherwise fanfiction might seep out the teabag and into the mug that is actual literature.
February 18, 2010 at 8:44 pm
I’m with you. It seems to come down to two different issues: giving credit and finding inspiration. The line between theft (which implies that the original author “owned” the ideas in the first place) and appropriation is really slim. I’m reading back over Lethem’s article now, and realizing that I pulled the surrealist example from him…
Definitely read over it when you have the time; the writing truly is brilliant, and he drives the message home at the end with his own bibliography. Here are his last lines:
“Don’t pirate my editions; do plunder my visions. The name of the game is Give All. You, reader, are welcome to my stories. They were never mine in the first place, but I gave them to you. If you have the inclination to pick them up, take them with my blessing.”
February 18, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Haha I agree about the fanfic, but I have a copy of Rowling’s last book (probably) not written by her (unless it is a really early draft) that is much, much better than the one that was published.
IMHO: Should a person intentionally steal another’s ideas without credit simply for personal gain? Never. (Campbell’s taught us that we vilify the person who uses knowledge for solely personal gain…)
Should a person find inspiration in the works of others? Sure; it’s unavoidable.
I think the problem arises when money (and copyrights) come into play. I would never say “All art should be free and owned by all,” but the problem has nothing to do with adapting or adopting another’s idea; it has everything to do with making money and “deserving credit.”
February 18, 2010 at 11:58 pm
I was not at all disappointed to see those photos for Rockwell. It actually made me happy, I use source photos all the time. I cannot draw proportionate people without reference. I rob reality or I rob art, mostly both.
Also isn’t developing a photo like using a projector to paint, except without the long process of applying paint?
February 19, 2010 at 12:34 am
oh and crazy film about the van eyke projecting on canvas= David Hockney’s Secret Knowledge